SPECIAL EPISODE: it’s not too late: the creative leap that changes everything
In this special episode of the Full of Ourselves podcast, Anna Campbell sits down with co-host Heidi Hinda Chadwick to celebrate the launch of her debut novella, The Story of the Deer Woman. But this conversation is about far more than a book release. It’s about creativity, courage, rejection, and the moment when you stop circling your dreams and finally choose yourself.
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This episode is a powerful listen for women in business, creatives, coaches, and entrepreneurs who feel the pull to do something bigger, braver, or more aligned but aren’t sure if it’s too late to start.
Heidi shares the behind-the-scenes journey of how her book came into the world, from the early idea to the publishing process, including the reality of rejection and the persistence it takes to keep putting your work out there. After years of coaching other creatives and supporting their dreams, she reached a turning point where she had to ask herself: what about mine?
Together, Anna and Heidi explore the emotional and practical sides of building a creative life and business. They talk about the difference between having ideas and doing the work to bring them into reality, and why so many people stay close to the thing they want—working as the assistant, the reviewer, or the supporter—without ever pressing the button on their own dream.
The conversation also touches on a key theme for creative entrepreneurs: people don’t just buy products or services - they buy meaning. Whether you run a jewellery business, a coaching practice, or any creative venture, sharing the story, inspiration, and purpose behind your work is what creates connection and builds a loyal audience.
Heidi speaks candidly about the realities of rejection in the creative process, including her practice of aiming for 100 rejections as a way to reframe failure and keep moving forward. This perspective offers a refreshing and practical approach for women in business who are navigating setbacks, self-doubt, or the fear of putting themselves out there.
Another key thread in the episode is the relationship between creativity and entrepreneurship. Heidi reflects on how she once saw herself as an entrepreneur first and an artist second, but is now shifting into a new identity: an artist who happens to run a business. It’s a powerful distinction that many creative women will recognise as they build businesses around their art, ideas, or expertise.
The episode closes with a reminder that creativity isn’t a luxury - it’s a lifeline. In a world that can feel overwhelming, connecting with magic, beauty, and wonder through creative expression can be a radical and healing act, both personally and collectively.
If you’ve been sitting on a business idea, creative project, or bold next step, this conversation is a gentle but powerful invitation to stop waiting for the perfect moment.
It’s not too late. It might just be time.
useful links
More info - the podcast
Follow us on Instagram @fullofourselvespodcast
Connect with Anna Campbell
https://www.goodgirlrebellion.com/
Instagram @annaccampbell
Anna’s book Good Girl Rebellion: Build the Business, Break the Rules, Be Limitless.
https://www.goodgirlrebellion.com/ggr-book
Connect with Heidi Hinda Chadwick
https://www.heidihindachadwick.com/
Instagram @heidihinda
Book: https://www.lemonjellypress.com/shop/p/the-story-of-the-deer-woman
To stay up to date with Heidi's book launch events: https://heidihinda.substack.com/
Thank you for listening. We hope you have enjoyed it. If you have, please do like and subscribe on your favourite podcast platform. This really helps us get the word out. And do tell everyone you know!
Also, we would LOVE to guest on podcasts and speak on stages all about women entrepreneurs. Get in touch! hello.fullofourselves@gmail.com
episode transcript
Anna Campbell (00:04.098)
Welcome to this very special episode of the Full of Ourselves podcast. We will be back with the full season four. It's coming this year, but for now we have a special, special, special episode because our beloved Heidi has her first novella coming out and we want to talk about it. Well, I definitely want to talk about it.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (00:25.257)
I'm
Anna Campbell (00:27.534)
So I wanted to talk about some of the behind the scenes about how it was published and your creative practice because I think that's really inspiring for everyone And I believe everyone is creative. So hello everyone. But, it's exciting!
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (00:44.157)
Thank you. Thank you. It really is, isn't it? This, those of you that are watching this on video, this is my book. And as of the day of recording this today, I am 10 days away from seeing my book out in the world on shelves. Yeah, it's all, it's ridiculous exciting. It comes out on the 14th of February.
and buy it, go and buy it and you'll discover why. Not just obviously you're to go and buy it because I've written this beautiful story, starting to get some really beautiful reviews that are just making me cry and yeah it's all very exciting.
Anna Campbell (01:29.304)
Well, okay, so I have been very fortunate. I've been able to, I got my hands on an advanced copy, very exciting. I'm also super excited to be celebrating with you at your book launch in Manchester, which I know has sold out, sold out really early, but I also know you're planning some other events. So we're gonna add anything like that in the show notes and we'll be sharing all of that on our Instagram as well. So keep an eye out for those.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (01:30.686)
Yep.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (01:44.115)
I know.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (01:50.621)
Yeah.
Anna Campbell (01:54.799)
And you know, maybe you've already booked your ticket and we'll see you there. I don't know. We'll see. But I have questions, so let's get into them. So I have read the book and I loved it, as you know. But for those listening, can you tell us a little bit about the story of the dear woman?
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (01:54.984)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (01:59.503)
Yeah.
Good? Yep.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (02:13.489)
Yes, so it's a, I've been calling it, and it is, it's a lyrical, because I do write very lyrically. I used be a painter, and it's interesting kind of when I made that transition to writing, which was about 15 odd years ago now, I feel that there's something about that that's still very much in how I write. It's a lyrical adult, slightly unhinged, fairy tale.
set in the grim North city of Manchester. So you've got this beautiful juxtaposition of this, almost this unreal, allegorical characters running around in a real city. And I grew up in Manchester, still, I mean, buggered off and then came back again. So I live here now and it's actually really fun to put places in. So you'd recognise that, but it's also got lots of modern.
reference points in as well, which is really fun when these characters engaging in that because it I don't know think it kind of anchors these characters and their story into somewhere real which I think was really really good fun to well really good fun to write and I'm hearing people are really receiving that very well. So yeah and it's not it's not a pretty sugar-coated story and actually
it's very much kind of what happens after the happily ever after bit that you get in a lot of those stories, which really bugs me. I mean, I just have that anyway, whether it's like old stories or like romance films, and they lived happily ever after. You don't see what happens a few months later, a few years later, maybe even a few decades or centuries later. Let's just say that. So this book kind of shines a light on what can possibly go wrong. Yeah.
And it's also very much about the kind of monstrous appetites of women as well, how we can be not nice. And that for me is something that I'm always really fascinated by. It's a bloody good read. People are reading it in one go. Two guys, yeah.
Anna Campbell (04:12.078)
Mm.
Anna Campbell (04:27.948)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Yes, I read it. I actually read it a cup in a couple of goes. I was kind of it was like a little savouring tips. I think I would call it. And I actually was.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (04:40.999)
Yeah, yeah, because not normally something that you read, is it darling? So I'm very appreciative of that.
Anna Campbell (04:50.382)
I love reading. Reading is the thing I do the most actually. The weekend loads of people talking about television and things like that, but for me it's reading, reading, reading. But it is not a genre that I necessarily read very much. I do like crime drama and I do like that. And what I actually loved about it was that I think when you're used to a certain genre of work, you kind of know what
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (05:05.193)
and
Anna Campbell (05:18.798)
the arc of the story is. You may not know exactly what's going to happen and how it's going to happen, but you know what is going to happen. And as I was reading it, was like, I just don't know what's going to happen here because it has that element of the fairy tale and I know you don't love the word fantasy, but it's got some of that elements, but also set in a real city. And I think that was for me, that was what was really interesting. It's like, I really, you know, it was...
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (05:20.467)
Bye.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (05:35.367)
Thank
Anna Campbell (05:46.966)
I don't know what's going to happen here and that's why I really enjoyed it as well. I just think it's a great story.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (05:50.545)
Yeah, great. Thank you. And it's that I've actually had that from a few people that part of why they enjoyed it. And so far, the reviews have been really positive from advanced readers. They're starting to come in now. And that's one of the things that has come up quite a lot of the you just don't know what's going to happen. You want to know right to the last page.
even right at the end it's oh that was an expected kind of ending um so yeah yeah good i'm glad this is my first book my first book i finally stepping into writing putting that in the center of what i want this life to be and i've just literally my birthday two days ago just 1053 there's something that
Anna Campbell (06:28.173)
Yes.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (06:44.699)
is so important anyway, I've always had this thing anyway, like the creative genius, know, coaching and all of this that I've been doing for so long. One of the big things for me is like, it's never too late. Like what is the thing you want to do? Not circling around it, we can circle around something because it feels comfortable. I'll be the book reviewer or I'll be the, I don't know, artist assistant or, you know, so you can be in that world, but to actually...
what I call it pressing the button, the thing you want to do. It's taken me a long time to get to that point. You know, I've spent like 15 years coaching others, which I, you know, I love working with others and with others creative dreams and seeing them take off and go for it and sit with them with the doubts around things and fears. And I think it got to the point I was like, hold on a second, what about mine? The irony sometimes, I think we offer and teach the things that we most need. I know often we have conversations, don't we, when we're both exploring kind of what we want.
to put out there next and it is so much about well I'm going through this or I've learned something from this or this is that next edge that I'm at so it's very alive in me so let's kind of offer this out into to the world and you're nodding as you and as I say this it's true isn't it so stepping into being a writer is me going I'm doing it and it's not too late so maybe you know if you're listening to this
Maybe there's that little itch of something that you've always wanted to do. It doesn't have to be writing, it could be setting up a business, it could be, doesn't matter what that is. But you might want to kind of look out with fresh eyes and go, well, it's never too late.
Anna Campbell (08:22.798)
think that's the key thing is actually there's a lot of research that is showing that women around, you know, kind of 30s, 40s, 50s, I think women starting businesses, it's, I can't remember the exact stat, but it's something around like early 50s. And I feel like, you know, we have, like, if people need it, to follow that, like you just said, it's like, there are things you have now built up a wealth of decades.
of experience and things that you can bring to bear to it. like you said, when I echo it, like that. It's not too late. It's time. When it's time, it's time. And I think that's what's great about this particular story, because, yeah, it feels like it kind of came at the right time. So we'll talk about how it got published and things as well, because I think, again, people love to hear a bit more about that. But if we start off with...
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (08:54.057)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (09:03.379)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (09:15.677)
Yeah.
Anna Campbell (09:21.388)
your creative process. How do you write? How do you get a story written? just people have a little peek in behind that.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (09:23.356)
Yes, darling.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (09:27.463)
Honestly, the amount of... Yeah. Well, before actually I answered that question, what I'm starting to do, so I run a magazine online, it's on Substack, called the Pleasure Alchemist magazine. And it's only a few months old, so it's still kind of forming.
But if you like the essays and articles and things that I write, know a lot of you hopefully can follow me over on sub stat and if you not come over there you can follow free and receive, I try and write there once a week if I can. And so this magazine is going a little bit deeper. The pleasure alchemist for me, the byline is, Vogue for your mind, the artist's way for your soul.
Which is very me. So that's the kind of like idea of it. This month's issue, which is gonna...
well, I'm going to get it out there today, actually, it's nearly ready to go, is looking at why stories are important, and particularly stories for women are important, and particularly fairy tale stories, because they do offer us a different understanding of parts of us that maybe we don't want to look at, or we're not okay with, or we've got to, I know for Good Girl Rebellion, these parts of us are the people pleasing, or you've to be nice, or can't disappoint others, and so on. So this issue is about that,
For the very first time I'm going to put in the issue. It's actually gonna have the first chapter of the book in it. I'm gonna start from now on putting my stories, because I don't ever put my stories out. People like and read my essays and articles, which I love, but my stories, my crazy mind.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (11:05.253)
So if you are interested in that, and then there's always like beautiful practices as well in there, you get really gorgeous bumper issue, come over and join the Pleasure Alchemist. We'll put a link somewhere around this video. But where stories come from? I mean, I've always had a huge imagination and it was something that when I was younger, I got shamed for because it was very out there and I didn't, I was only young.
shame came and I kind of closed my voice down and so much of my work and what I do anyway with people is around reclaiming that voice, remembering that voice and then expressing that voice and what I really feel that is such an anchor part of all the work that I do. I don't know, I have a very disturbed mind and a... like you know I love all my horror films and kind of strange stories.
I don't know, it's such an interesting question of like where do stories go? So this book, let's go with this book then, was an interesting one because I began writing this just at a time when I did decide to step into taking writing seriously, which was just a few years ago and that's a whole other story.
and I was looking for call outs and things to respond to as a generator, you know, let's have a look to respond to. And there was a call out from a publisher based in the North that were looking for weird stories, weird novellas based in the North of England. And I saw that and I was like, my God, okay. And I think I had three weeks to get this together, which again, love to deadline me, you know.
So was like, okay, so I can set something in Manchester, which I'd never done before. lot of my stories were a bit kind of placeless in a way. And then I had these three characters, the three main protagonists in the story of the dear woman. They had different stories that I'd already written. And I just thought, I wonder if I could bring those three characters together and then set them in Manchester. So the whole process of doing this book was, I think, everything.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (13:18.331)
One writes, has the different, you know, how it grows and where the seeds come from. So that's how that came about. And I had such good fun putting them together and seeing how they, what their relationship to each other was, what was going to happen. This didn't get picked up by that particular press, which is great. I worked on it a bit more. And then actually this got picked up by another press.
and it was on their final table, they told me, before they chose something else, but they wanted to let me know. So was like, okay, there's something here. And then finally it got picked up by Lemon Jelly Press, who is the publisher of my book, which it was picked out of over 200 submissions, which obviously is like, it's a thing to remember when I start to doubt, is this any good? So, yeah. So I don't know. I just like to follow things. Yeah.
Anna Campbell (14:13.898)
Yeah, yeah, that's very you. I like it very you. But I think it's interesting. There's a couple of things in there that are interesting. And obviously it was, it kind of came from prompt bringing together stories that you already had or characters that you already had, setting it in Manchester, which I absolutely loved. Because I thought that was so interesting because again, not knowing this genre very well, but
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (14:31.091)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (14:35.559)
Mmm.
Anna Campbell (14:42.408)
I always think about any kind of story like that being set in a completely kind of fantasy world and that's not what this is, it's actually a set. And also there's a...
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (14:49.772)
No, no, and if anyone can see me now my face is like that. I don't like, I just have this thing around fantasy. I don't write fantasy at all. It's literary fiction for those of you that are wondering, darlings, it's a little bit more highbrow. Just want to be clear. Not that there's anything wrong with fantasy, just not my thing, but it has fantastical elements.
Anna Campbell (15:10.37)
Yeah, definitely. there's a series that I love, the Ben Aronovich, Rivers of London series, which is similar in a way because it's set in real London, but or in other places as well, but also has kind of fantastical elements on it. I love it. But yeah, I'll share it with you. It's such a great one. Very different to what you what you're doing particularly, but I just think, you know, I really like that one. But
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (15:22.334)
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (15:26.019)
Ooh, I'm writing a tennis.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (15:31.975)
Well, hmm.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (15:37.457)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anna Campbell (15:39.939)
I think it's also that thing of, you you put it out there a few times and, you know, like you say, you know that it got close to it with another press, but then, you know, it was chosen. So again, it's another thing around like just sometimes it's getting that message, but to the right people, to the right place.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (15:47.869)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (15:55.485)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (16:06.153)
And I think this is...
Anna Campbell (16:06.87)
It's not that the message is wrong, but that maybe the place is wrong.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (16:10.441)
This is it, isn't it? And I've always been fascinated by the creative process, I've been fascinated by like artists rituals, and also there's something comforting, I guess. I know I'm not alone in this, and when you read about, you know, how many times people get rejected, like I love the story. One of my favorite is Stephen King, back in the day, obviously, it was letters. And he got this massive nail.
and hammered it into the wall and every time he got a rejection letter he'd put it on this nail to the point it was bulging with rejections.
and he even crumpled up the short story of Carrie, put it in the bin and it was his wife that pulled it out the bin and said, I think, no, I think you should send this somewhere else. It was the first piece of his that got published and then the rest is history. And then obviously we know about, all sorts of other authors, even Stranger Things, which I've loved Stranger Things though, maybe the last season's a little bit, anyway, I'm not gonna talk about Stranger Things necessarily. I read this recently that it was refused by 50,
12 or 15 different TV production companies before Netflix said yes to it. Stranger things. Look at all the phenomenon that it is now. And I think this is so key, isn't it? Just full stop in all of this that we both speak about here on FOOP. This idea of it's a risk, it's a risk.
Wanting to do anything is a risk. Putting yourself out there, building a business, going after your creative dreams. There is no getting away from the fact it's a risk. There's no getting away from the fact you're gonna fail, whatever that means. which, you know, if you change that around and then you try something, it didn't work, I learned something, let's try something else, is a nicer way to look at that more positive, because it's true.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (18:05.833)
And I've talked on here before and I've talked with Anna about this quite a lot of the ridiculous ask and the embracing 100 rejections, which I set up as I was starting to take writing seriously. Because it's like, shit, how do I psychologically reverse this thing of I'm going to get rejected? Still do so much more rejections than anything else, you know, for stories. So I'm still working my way through my 100 rejections.
and it helps, it doesn't take away the ouch, especially if it's something you really want, you know, and that's important to feel that. But then, okay, after that you carry on. You know, all what you're do, give up after the first no, which I think a lot of people do, or a lot of people maybe don't even start because they don't even want one no, nevermind many nos. Yeah, so you've got to kind of weirdly have a...
Anna Campbell (18:58.616)
Yeah.
Yeah, I've had
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (19:03.161)
thick skin for that but at the same time thin skin in order to be a creative being in the world.
Anna Campbell (19:12.357)
I did, I've had this thing that said, what if you knew you were 100 rejections away from your ideal life or whatever it was? And it's like, how many rejections would you go after if you knew that? And I think it's interesting to put it that way. mean, for me, I hear this and you've talked about this to me before and I'm like cringing away, like, I can't do it. But equally, I can absolutely see what
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (19:19.689)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (19:34.931)
Clean.
Anna Campbell (19:41.647)
see that it really is the only way forward. And I think in some ways making a game of it and making it like that, it's like, I'm just collecting these and it makes it, yeah, it doesn't, as you say, it doesn't make it hurt less sometimes. But it's more about just saying, right, well, actually, it's a little bit like the press thing, you you put it out there and it, you know, maybe it did get rejections or it did get to, but then it's like, well,
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (19:44.892)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (19:55.911)
Really?
Anna Campbell (20:08.782)
maybe this is what it's waiting for the right opportunity. And you needed to go through those processes of editing, re-editing to get it to Lemon Jelly, to then be like, to be the one chosen out of 200, you know, it's, it's a thing.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (20:13.373)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (20:22.377)
Yeah, and it's that annoying phrase isn't that rejection is redirection and you know like all this stuff makes your eyeballs roll but it's kind of true you know and we'll all have done that even if you're like no I don't go that
Anna Campbell (20:34.978)
But then if you don't have the rejection, there's no new direction, is there? know, it's like, we need to keep putting ourselves out there.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (20:39.913)
I'm just gonna...
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (20:45.949)
Yeah, and I think that, you know, I'm thinking about that on a different level, or even if you think, I can't take big risks. You know, if you're putting something out, I know for me, I've set up programs, courses, workshops when no one books on and, you know, you could say that was a no, a rejection, you know, but.
Did that stop? No, you just go, okay, well maybe that, Have a moment about it, you know. And then go, okay, well maybe I'll try it again here, or maybe I need to look at marketing. You know, like there's always something about, wait, why didn't that work? Let me look at that a bit more. You know, like if I believe in this.
then maybe it just needs a tweaking of something or is it too with the time or maybe I'm just really tired and actually life's going, girl, just have a rest, sit down with your new favorite book, The Story of the Dear Woman by Heidi and De Chadwick and just take a load off and then actually you'll be revived again and you put the same thing out there and suddenly it's full. We just don't know, do we? And everyone goes through this. I always think as well about, you know, you see these amazing, you read these amazing books,
you see these amazing shows, you go to exhibitions of your favourite artists, but they don't show you the stuff that they rejected or that didn't get chosen. You know, like Monet's Water Lilies, how many paintings did he do before that was the one? You know, we don't hear about that.
PS is a lot probably.
Anna Campbell (22:14.89)
Yeah, definitely true. Yeah, absolutely. It's all of that kind of iterations and a lot of times, you know, what we see on things like social media and things is just like you said, it's the successful one. It's the time where it did work out. So it's great to talk about this because I think it helps. I it needs normalizing, that we need to keep going, you know, and I think we, all of us,
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (22:18.941)
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (22:37.971)
How's that?
Anna Campbell (22:45.326)
We've got to put it in the work and we've got to get it out there and then there'll be one thing like Lemon Jelly going, this is the one, this is the one we want to publish and boom, there we are with it's happening and we're all off to soon for the launch and it's exciting. But you have to put it out there. It wasn't going to do any good sitting in your notebook or sitting on the computer and not out in the world.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (22:55.409)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (23:02.505)
Hmm.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (23:06.323)
Mm.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (23:11.081)
And then there's the other part of this now where I'm at right now, which is really interesting of it's out there. So it's no longer like that's it. As soon as it was sent off to the printers.
That's it. Because I've spent months editing and re-editing and there's a whole new chapter that's happened. You know, there's lots of the editing process is really, God, that's so fascinating. I know you're smiling there because you had that with your book as well. But then it gets to the point of now it's almost nothing to do with me. And sitting in that place of before the reviews started to come in, I could feel, you know, it's uncomfortable sitting in that place because it's almost like.
I'd rather have any review, even if it's a really terrible review, than no reviews because I want to know how it's landing. what's really interesting now is how people are going to respond is actually now got nothing to do with me and nothing to do with the book in a way. It's what people's preferences, maybe what mood someone was in when they were reading it. It might not be that kind of thing, but they picked it up anyway because someone recommended it.
So this is a whole other interesting thing of once you put something out, how it's then going to be received is none of my business. And this is another, I mean, this is again a whole other topic, which is very interesting is when our identity is fused with say, run, you know, I'm the owner of this, this is it, this is my identity as I'm this particular business owner, or I am this artist, or I am this writer.
If our identity is fused with that, then anybody having an opinion is going to rock us and that's not healthy. And a lot of people do that. You know, it's really important to be very aware of, I'm a writer and I've created this book, but it's not all of who I am.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (25:09.557)
who I am has got nothing to do with what people have to say about the book. And I would rather, and those of you that are listening to this, well all of you, because you're listening to this, once you've my book, I'm really inviting everybody, please leave reviews. It's really helpful for writers to be so honest, because it helps other people know then, okay, hold on. Yeah, I'm like that person, I don't know if I'm gonna pick this up. I'd rather people were honest about their experience, because I find that really fascinating as well.
Anna Campbell (25:10.849)
Hmm.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (25:39.37)
So yeah, I can't remember the beginning of that sentence was when the pause brain, but there you go. Yeah. I was just about, yeah, anything we put out there. Yeah, it's not about us. And that's where we get a bit stuck as well. take it all very personally. And don't get me wrong.
Anna Campbell (25:44.606)
Yeah, no, no, no, it's... No, I think that's true too.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (25:59.668)
to do that as well but it's worth kind of just making sure am I separate enough from the thing I'm putting out because it's not me like Anna you're not good girl rebellion it's your business and you know it's wonderful but it's there's it's not you you're a multitude multifaceted being of all sorts of different different stuff doesn't mean doesn't hurt if people don't get what we're doing but it's really important to know that
Anna Campbell (26:25.056)
Yeah, definitely. And lots of our listeners are building businesses around their creative work. So how do you balance the artistic and the entrepreneurial Heidi Hindert-Petrie
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (26:36.721)
Yeah, how do I? I know exactly. You're going to tell me. Anna's got the answers. Well, this is an interesting one. So this is actually quite a new thing for me. And Anna knows this and, you know, in the kind of interest of transparency as well, because our listeners, because we always want to just really put out there what's true so that you can, you know, feel.
that you're on the same journey with us and it's kind of really helpful. I'm having this whole thing of realizing maybe I'm not, it's not, I think I've been living as an entrepreneur first and then trying to.
to kind of follow that first and actually realise over last few months that's not actually an artist first, who happens to be an entrepreneur. And that is changing lots of things for me, which is still ongoing at the moment. I've like, okay, anything that I want to do is going to be supportive of the fact that the creative stuff is what I want to put first.
So to answer your question, I think it's a really good thing to even think about of, okay, if I'm an artist, an entrepreneur, creative, which one am I first? That's a really good thing. Maybe I'm a business person, but I happen to be very creative in that. Get very clear about that. Or maybe you go, like me, I've been trying to be a business person. I still am, but that's not the foremost thing. Foremost thing is, you know, the creative aspect.
And as my teacher, my nervous system teacher, Ruby, often says to me, you are, they're both artists, artists have to be entrepreneurs. Think about it. Artists are the original entrepreneurs.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (28:17.769)
Because at the end of the day, you're putting yourself out there. You're marketing yourself. You're saying to people, come and hear this music. If you like this, you you'll like what I have to do. And when you think about it like that, it's so interesting because it's true. You're not starting off cold. You actually have to be an entrepreneur if you are an artist. And actually realizing that is so fascinating because it's not separate. You're probably already doing it. You've already muscled.
that aspect of it already. in a way they're not separate. Unless you're somebody who you're like, you sit in your room, you paint your pictures, you don't own a phone, you've got somebody like a slave or a servant or something or a butler who does all that stuff for you. Then maybe, yeah, sure, you're not then an entrepreneur, but I think in this day and age.
They go hand in hand, but it's worth knowing the difference between where you're leaning more towards first, I think, which is something that I'm just starting to learn about myself, and I will as I keep learning about this, share more about this, because I think it's actually really valuable. And I think a lot of you listening, probably, yeah, I think it might be like half and half of you listening that maybe you lean more towards the creative side first.
and you're being an entrepreneur, or you lean towards the entrepreneur side first and you use your creativity around that. So that could be an interesting thing to keep exploring. So the answer is I don't know. At the moment, I'm still figuring out,
Anna Campbell (29:53.903)
I think that's a good answer. And also I think what's interesting is coming back to what you're talking about about being an entrepreneur is that I think people that I work with a lot don't realise they're like, all they do is put out things to buy, buy this, buy this, buy this, buy this. But they're not sharing the bits that people are actually interested in, which is the creativity. It's like, how did this come to be? How did this piece of jewellery?
get made, what inspired it. And actually, people are very interested in creatives and the lives of the creatives and what they want to show of them. And the buying is like the final thing. It's like the transaction, it's that knowing, it's that understanding. And so I think trying find who we are as creatives doesn't do us.
anything and it doesn't really connect with people otherwise, you know, and I think that's why it's an important one. Right, have another question. Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (30:52.423)
Yeah.
This is so important, this is, yeah, just before though, just to say a little thing around that, it's looking at, like you say with all this stuff, know, everything's saturated. People aren't buying stuff. I mean, this is quite an old marketing thing anyway. People are buying meaning. And there's something about, it doesn't matter what you're putting out there, what is the meaning that somebody who's going to see that or scroll by and go, I resonate with that?
and then they'll stick around and they'll lean and be curious. This is the thing of like, what is the meaning of what it is that I'm doing, rather than just here's this product. And I've been very guilty of doing that, know, getting that, and buy this, rather than go, that's not gonna have any coherence, that's not gonna resonate with people. Whereas you get into the meaning behind that, you suddenly got people that are interested. So yeah, go on, question.
Anna Campbell (31:48.749)
don't love that. And I'm sure we'll talk more about all of this in the next season as well. But what part of the publication journey challenged you the most?
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (31:53.447)
minutes. Done? Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (32:01.737)
Okay. You know what's so funny? So Anna and I actually did record this conversation last week and unfortunately technology just was being a dick. And you know what? I can't remember what... It's so funny, isn't it? Cause I said something and you were like, oh no, I actually can't remember. So... Okay. What part challenged me the most? Oops.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (32:36.009)
You know what? This is maybe different to what I said last time and I can't remember what you were going to think because you've got that look on your face. I know that look on your face. This is a different answer to last time. I think I said editing last time, but then I realized it was challenging in a good way. What's challenging now, and I think this is again connects to anybody that's putting stuff out there, it is the getting out there. You know, I'm with a little press, Lemon Jelly, which is gorgeous because there's a real intimacy with that.
And also I know now from other people it doesn't even matter if it was one of the big five traditional presses you have to do a lot of that marketing yourself.
It's not like the old days when that's it, it's done and then the publishers kind of do it. So I think the challenge is at the moment is how, you know, thinking about inventive ways to get this out there, what to speak about. I'm still learning about this myself. I'm not very good at just directly going here's this book. When the book was announced by the publisher in December, I knew I should.
be writing about it. So I wrote an article about where my where's my husband. Because that's just how I made that's how my brain works. But I think it's this bit, which is a learning process. You know, it's fantastic. So the next book that I will get published by publisher.
I kind of know a lot more than I do now about kind of things to do. So I think this is the bit I would say is the most challenging. It's interesting, but it's like, come on, everybody, just buy this. Obviously, it's amazing. God, I have to tell you about it. Just tell everybody, buy it, end of story. But I can't remember now what you thought I was going to say. It's the same thing. It's weird, isn't it?
Anna Campbell (34:26.382)
I because I've been with you obviously through this whole process and before the book existed probably as well. And I mean, I remember us chatting about it and how and the editing process and the back and forth of that and the minutiae of it at the time being something that you were like, you know, got to do this now. Because the creative process is one thing, but then...
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (34:30.693)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (34:53.278)
Yeah.
Anna Campbell (34:54.668)
That's just like the first draft, isn't it? That's just like the first iteration and we need to kind of keep moving. then when you're working. Yes, exactly. But when you're working with a publisher who has their own skills, absolutely, but also their own. The word gender is not quite the right word, but like it has their own reason for it to come. I'm like, you know, they're putting money behind it and all of that. They've got their own, their own.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (34:59.933)
That's letting yourself play out.
Anna Campbell (35:23.882)
ideas about it. And so I think there's a little bit of that as well that comes in. I'm sure everyone can resonate with that idea of the bit that's the hardest is not the creating, it's the selling.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (35:23.945)
agenda.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (35:30.887)
Yeah, and I think part of that was having a voice.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (35:40.722)
It's the work. Creative bit or coming up with idea is great. know, writing a story is fun. I mean, I find it, you know, once I'm going, it's great fun. It's lyrical. It's your flow state that, you know, you hear about. It's beautiful. The editing though is the work bit. That's going to work. It's a very different feeling and it's lovely.
And yeah, it's challenging. mean, sometimes I've said to you, I've been stuck on this one sentence the whole afternoon, but I don't know kind of how to change it.
Yeah, and it's interesting, isn't it? The amount of ideas it makes me think about. I'm such an ideas person. A thousand million ideas before breakfast or something. And probably for a lot of us we do. And how many of those then do we go, okay, I'm gonna follow this idea. You know, the person that invented the biro, big biro, they don't know what idea they had in their brain, but then they followed it.
You know it makes me think of? Have you ever read any books by Danny Wallace?
Have heard of Danny Wallace? Yeah, I'm just thinking about it I went through a state, I absolutely loved his books because him and his mate, Dave Gorman, who's also written quite a lot of this is exactly it. They'd be in the pub, they'd be having a few drinks, they would come up with the most ridiculous ideas, and like, you know, normal people or everybody else would be like, and go home. That's it.
Anna Campbell (36:47.787)
Yes.
Anna Campbell (36:58.595)
Yes.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (37:08.467)
They, particularly like Danny's book, Yes Man, I think a lot of people might have heard of that, it was made into that film with Jim Carrey, the film is shit, read the book, the book is just fantastic. It's a true story of him actually having broken up with his girlfriend, which is come from another book, I didn't realise, where he actually makes this cult and his girlfriend has had enough of it leaves. So it's a true story, so Yes Man is him depressed, meets somebody on the bus who's like, say yes to things.
his mate at the pub's like, I bet you can't say yes to everything for a year. And then Danny Wallace is like, okay, and then goes with this. And it leads him to meeting his now wife. It leads him to having all these adventures and some mortifying things. And his books are like that. have this ridiculous like story in a pub, him and his mate, let's have a bet. And then, I don't know, stubbornly going, right, I'm gonna do this.
How many of our ideas do we go, that is genius and we know that's a genius and then we don't do anything about it?
Anna Campbell (38:11.874)
Yeah, I think it's always like that's why I love the ridiculous ask and the embracing a hundred rejections because there's something about making it sing, like making it a game, making it an intention that makes it, suddenly it makes it more whimsical and fun and joyful and a little bit like subversive and mad and...
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (38:26.153)
Yes, it's really funny.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (38:37.981)
Yeah.
Anna Campbell (38:39.958)
you know, makes you want to do it a little bit more where it just sounds like, like, I'll just say yes to everything. You'd be like, you wouldn't give anyone that advice.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (38:46.342)
I'm sorry.
And I often think to myself, and this is kind of how I try and live more these days, take what it is I believe in and what I'm doing seriously. know, whether it's your business, whether it's your writing something, take that seriously. That's really important. Give it that gravitas, but don't take yourself seriously at all. And I think having that is really important. I don't know about you, but someone that takes themselves very seriously. I know for me, if I take myself very seriously, I've gone out of my own alignment because I've lost my playfulness.
Playfulness is such a soul quality and it can help us with all the things that we're talking about, about the rejections, getting the nose, like putting yourself out there, trying things. Playfulness is just like a bomb. In fact, they should sell it in Neil's yard. Maybe we should actually, here we go, here's idea. Maybe we should create a range for creatives. The playfulness, that's actually going into a whole other different arena, isn't it? We'll just leave that there.
Anna Campbell (39:39.33)
Nice.
Anna Campbell (39:45.386)
Love it though. So 2026 is the year of being an author for you. What are you most excited about for this year?
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (39:46.845)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. I'm just letting that sink in. Published author.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (40:02.343)
Yeah, just letting that sink in. Well, so this is the of. So Lottie, my publisher and I, we talked about this a while ago, if we're promoting this book the whole year, so it's not just about the bit running up to it, which has actually been a real relief, especially when you just, you know.
Anna Campbell (40:05.641)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (40:26.601)
There's a lot going on and it's just the two of you trying to sort everything out to kind of take that pressure off and go, we're doing this the whole year. So what I'm most excited about and I'm going to offer extend this out to everyone listening as well is doing things throughout the year around.
the book. So we were talking about this last night, I want to do a summer book tour down south of England. There's a couple of places already that we're starting to do things with. Love to run some workshops, which I'm starting to do as well around a lot of the stuff to do with folklore, to do with feminism, women's voices, archetypes.
I mean, love running writing workshops anyway, like the shadow aspects of us, like writing the not nice parts of us, like all these things, I'd love to run a lot more stuff like that alongside book launches. So if you're somewhere where you think, do you know what, I'd love to have you around here, or I've got, you know, I can think of this place where there's a bookshop, an art gallery, whatever, just get in contact because I want this to be a kind of co-creative, juicy.
thing for the year.
And then seeing what else, there's going to be a couple of retreats as well, writing retreats slash book launches if you're interested. One's going to be in Portugal in a very, very beautiful space. Another one in Corfu. That's another very beautiful, different space later in the year. And then whatever else comes up. So I really want to go all in because I think that we can do another thing. I don't want to do that of being, oh, I've just, you know, yeah, I've got this book. Oh, I'm not going to. I want to really stand in that and go, this is my I'm a published author year.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (42:18.523)
Let's see what's out there. Here I am. Come invite me to speaking events. I'm going to be at Fiction Fest in April in Manchester on a stage talking about horror and identity, which is I'm really excited about. All of that stuff just lights me up as Anna knows. So I am open to your invites basically. That's what this year is going to be. Playing as published author, which is real, but playing PR with that. Let's go with that.
Anna Campbell (42:48.002)
Yeah, I love that. love that. I just kind of, people who are watching the video, kind of like go to the side and I can see my book behind me as well. And it's just, it is exciting. It's an exciting time. know, mine just came out in September, so it's only been a few months for me as well. So, and I'm so excited about it. So, yeah. And I'm just super proud.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (42:56.583)
Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (43:05.799)
I love the fact we're both published authors. It's fantastic. We do it. I know. those of you that might be new to listening to this as well, like Anna and I, when we started coaching each other a few years ago, these were all just like little, what do they call it?
Anna Campbell (43:10.423)
There we go. Starting season four with books.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (43:27.529)
a little dream in one's eyeball or something. It's not right, is it? That's what my brain says. You know, like this like, I'd love to, you know, and then kind of being with each other, we've been going through the whole processes and now look at us, both published authors. mean, hello and listeners, if you're liking what you're hearing and seeing, you know.
Anna Campbell (43:33.016)
Mm-hmm
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (43:46.772)
come and work with us and also come and invite both of us to do things. Let's just put all that out there as well. This is the year of, think, for both of us getting on stages and speaking and sharing our knowledge and wisdom and playfulness with you as well. So yeah.
Anna Campbell (44:05.206)
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so how can people find out more about the book? How can they buy a copy?
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (44:12.851)
Great, so as I say, I think this is gonna come out the 9th, I think. So the book is available to pre-order until the 14th. And we will put the link somewhere below. we would like you to purchase it directly from Lemon Jelly, from their shop. supporting, like that's part of the reason I wanted to look for an indie publisher. There's so many amazing indie publishers now.
Anna Campbell (44:26.317)
We will.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (44:42.503)
I think it's absolutely fantastic. So supporting indie publishers rather than buying it on Amazon's thing, but buy it on Amazon as well. That's fine, but please support indie publishers. I get more money as well when you do that, just letting you know. So yeah, Lemon Jelly Press.
I think is the name of the website, but that'll be down below. And you can, yeah, you can get in contact with me via, well, just send me an email or send us an email at full of ourselves podcast. Yeah, join us on this amazing journey of the story of the dear woman.
Anna Campbell (45:23.79)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I wholeheartedly recommend it to everyone. think even if it's not your normal genre, I think you'll enjoy it. If you're listening to this and you love hearing us chat, then I know you're going to enjoy reading it as well. So, yeah.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (45:28.329)
Hmm.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (45:39.656)
I just want to say something before we wrap up. It's actually one of the biggest important things to me of one of my biggest philosophers, I suppose, in life, you know, we're talking about the meaning making behind the things that we offer, is I believe in magic and beauty and wonder. They're kind of like my holy trinity. And right now the world is, there's not even any words to describe the horror of the world.
in so many different ways that we're living in. And I think that's when we can lose our connection to things like playfulness and taking ourselves lightly and joy and following these ridiculous ideas that we're talking about and even putting our own selves out there because we just close down around kind of fear. And I am wholeheartedly an advocate for creativity being
and magic and beauty and wonder and connecting to those, being the most radical political act that we can stand in and buy. For our own selves, our own self, our own wellbeing, for those around us, for the communities we're living in and so on. It's giving me absolute goosebumps as I say this. So this is part of why I wrote this book, because I believe in that, that was to connect back to that, just to remember that there is that in the world, not in a kind of twee way, but in a kind of real way. And...
you know, maybe that's something to kind of leave you with is, yeah, the world is shitty right now. Maybe stuff's going on for you that's really kind of crappy in your personal life, but seeing where you can kind of acknowledge or appreciate what's beautiful or where the wonder is or where the magic is in your own life, I just think we need that more and more right now. So I just really want you to say that before we finish.
Anna Campbell (47:27.254)
I love that. know, again, only those people who are watching the video can see this, but right behind me at the top, there's a piece of jewelry that I made. And it says on the back of it, each piece has got a letter on it. It says, look for the magic glimmering at the edges of your life. So it just reminds me of what you just said. And I love that. Brilliant. OK, well, thank you so much, Heidi. I'm very excited to be seeing you very soon in person at the book launch.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (47:47.689)
Yes.
Anna Campbell (47:54.382)
And we are looking forward to being back with you for a new season of the Full of Ourselves podcast very soon. So thank you. Bye.
Heidi Hinda Chadwick (48:01.085)
yet. Bye, thank you Anna!